Congress wants everyone’s support but won’t help others in return: Ghulam Nabi Azad

Veteran leader Ghulam Nabi Azad, who left Congress after a five-decade political life with it, has now penned his memoirs ‘Azaad’, which is hitting the stands on Wednesday. He spoke to DH’s Shemin Joy.

You are writing your memoirs after a five-decade long political life. One knows Azad as a leader, organiser, speaker etc. But Azad the writer is new. How did it happen?

I would say Covid-19 made me a writer. The pandemic might have 99.99 per cent disadvantages and took millions of lives. While recognising the disadvantages, I find 0.01 per cent advantage as it provided a lot of opportunity to people like me who would know nothing about writing. There are politicians who are good writers. As I was a round-the-clock politician, I never had an opportunity to read much and write not at all. But during the two years of pandemic, there was no work, nobody would come, nowhere to go. I contracted Covid-19 twice. There was a lot of time after recovery. My family, especially my wife, suggested that instead of spending time doing nothing, except for gardening that I continue to do, I should write.

Also Read: Those who criticised me over Modi praise need to go back to 'kindergarten to learn ABC of politics': Azad

Did you keep diaries? Or were you depending on your memory to write the autobiography?

Since early days, I had been thinking of keeping a diary but I was never a regular. If I write for a week, then I won’t write for months. If I had maintained a diary, this book would have been much more interesting. So I have to recollect things from my memory. Whatever I recollect, I put it in black and white. But still I would prefer to say that the book is both illustrative and educative. Mostly, it is meant for political parties not only for Congress but for all. It is also useful for the young who plan to join politics.

What is your message to the young who want to join politics?

If they want to be a good politician, a successful politician, they should be familiar with the prevailing situation. Nobody should join politics for the heck of it. Different people have different perceptions about politics. Now very few join politics with an aim to serve the people. Most who enter politics are self-centred. They want to become MLA, MP, minister, and want to throw weight around. Some want to make money, some enter to promote their business. For me, politics is not about throwing your weight around or making money. One needs to be humble. You must have some commitment to yourself and people. Unless you have commitment to yourself, people, country, you cannot be a good politician. This is the bottomline.

You have written in the book that a trend has emerged in the Congress party that youngsters with good looks and oratorical skills are favoured over veterans. Why did it happen in Congress?

Votes are in villages but nobody wants to go to villages. Everybody wants to become the spokesperson so that they get TV exposure and are known to everybody. If you give a choice in any political party today, the number one choice is to become spokesperson followed by an office bearer post. Almost all want to stay in cities. It is the same in all parties. There was only one leader who joined me after leaving Congress wanted to remain at the block level. I said you are a senior and you should be at district or state level but he told me the moment he leaves the block level, he would lose the connect with people and lose the next elections.

Also Read: Rahul ignored consequences of letting Himanta leave Congress, says Azad in upcoming memoir

But isn’t this the story of every party?

Except for the BJP and the CPI(M), who work at the ground level. At one time, Mayawati’s BSP worked at the grassroots but the moment they moved away from the ground, they lost. Most of the Congress leaders were grassroot workers earlier but that is not the case now. When I was a General Secretary, I spent most of my time in the state where I was assigned. I came to Delhi very rarely. I could confidently say I knew more local workers than the state or district presidents. My assessment of local prospects was closer than theirs because I was at the ground. In Congress, over a period of time, General Secretaries or the state in-charges stopped spending time in their assigned states. They would go to the state in the morning, hold meetings at a five-star hotel and then fly back in the evening. The connect with people is lost.

In hindsight, do you think you could have a better say in the party if you had stayed back and not been part of the G-23?

No. That was not going to happen. Even the person who has taken over, has he been able to change the course? The same people who were running the party are running it now.

Are you saying that the problem remains?

That is the great problem. The election to the party president post did not work. The same thing is happening. What is the change? Do you find any change? There is no change.

The Congress had a Plenary Session in Raipur in February. Are you saying it did not work?

The main agenda of any plenary session is the election of the Congress Working Committee. That was the first demand of G-23. For the past 26 years, there was no election to the CWC. For another five years, it will not happen. Then the Central Election Committee is not elected. The people who were distributing tickets 26 years ago are the same people who are distributing tickets now.

The argument of a section is that an election to CWC would divide the party. Do you agree?

Are they saying that even if the party is finished?

Also Read: Bofors to Adani — How India’s democratic DNA has changed

There are questions about the decision making process in Congress. You wrote about how ND Tiwari managed to become Uttarakhand Chief Minister instead of Harish Rawat after a meeting with Sonia Gandhi. Do you think Sonia erred in her judgement?

No, I won’t blame Sonia-ji in the Uttarakhand episode. I would rather blame Tiwari, who should not have been greedy for a post for which he had not worked. He campaigned only for one day while Rawat did all the work. Rather than blaming Sonia-ji, I would blame the Congress system. It had developed a system of 'appointing a Chief Minister' rather than electing one by the Legislature Party. The election is only a facade. But to be fair, this was not introduced by Sonia-ji but during the implementation of Kamaraj Plan in the 1960s. They were big stalwarts so they could withstand that. But the present leadership cant withstand this. Ever since this system came into place, the downfall of the Congress started.

But this was repeated in Assam, if one goes by your memoirs. Do you think if Sonia had asserted herself, Congress would not have been in this state in the north east?

It was Sonia-ji's fault. She should have asserted herself and allowed Himanta Biswas Sarma to succeed Tarun Gogoi mid-way. She should not have gone by Rahul Gandhi's assertion.

You wrote about the charisma of Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi. Do you think Rahul does not match them?

I don’t want to say. It is for the people and the Congress to judge whether he is of the same stature or not.

When you talk about Uttar Pradesh, you wrote that whenever Congress fell, the charisma of Indira and Rajiv helped to bounce back. You acknowledge Priyanka Gandhi Vadra worked hard in UP but said her appearances were more optical in nature. Do you think Priyanka also lacks charisma?

I cannot compare anybody with Indira-ji. Rajiv-ji was really charismatic But I won’t say that he was as charismatic as Indira. He was more gentlemanly and perfect. He was initially misguided for which he had to pay heavily. He made amends but he had to pay a heavy price. He was totally a different person. There is one thing that is different between him and the present leadership. If you give advice to Rajiv-ji, he would listen carefully and implement it. The best leader is one who is not only accessible, but who is ready to make amends, however big he or she may be. People who think they know everything and there is none capable of advising them, I think, they cannot progress.

With the present set up, do you think Congress can fight the BJP?

I don't want to comment on that. I have left the Congress and I am not in a position to talk about who in the party will be able to fight the BJP. It is for the Congress people and leaders to come up to mark.

The latest episode in Congress is Rahul Gandhi’s disqualification from Lok Sabha. Do you think the Congress is fighting it politically?

Congress has made some mistakes. When the same thing happened to Lalu Prasad, Congress did not make any noise. When half-a-dozen other people were disqualified, they didn’t. Congress cries only when it comes to themselves. That is why it is not getting traction. Congress as the principal opposition party would have raised voice when the first case had happened. That did not happen. When it comes to the leadership of Congress, the party wants everybody to support them. But they don't want to support anybody.

There is reference to the 2013 ordinance, which Rahul objected to. But aren’t other Opposition parties supporting Congress now?

That is their magnanimity. They are very generous. If there was that ordinance, this would not happen. Who is to blame for this? There should be some introspection. You cannot always cry hoarse without doing introspection.

Congress has taken up the Adani issue. There is a comparison about how Congress went ahead with Rafale. Has Congress picked up the right campaign plank?

They are free to support or oppose anybody. But one has to understand that there are public issues and individual issues. The Congress is only taking up issues related to individuals in which people are not interested. Media may be interested for some time. But there are a number of public issues like rising unemployment, price rise. Congress is never bothered about that. It is the poor who vote and not the rich. When you are not bothered about them, why should the poor be bothered about what you say?

Why didn’t Congress invite you to Bharat Jodo Yatra when it reached Kashmir? Are you hurt?

I don’t know. You should ask them. I am not hurt.

You formed your own party as you felt that the Congress was not in a position to come to power. But Congress says your party is in shambles and the leaders who came with you have returned. What is your take?

Congress is always happy that leaders are with them. They are not bothered whether the public is with them. I am very happy that leaders are not with me but the public is. So that is a good deal.